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Post by sonic on Feb 27, 2021 2:59:01 GMT -6
OK I'll say this. A great big YOU in the middle of a post reply pretty much points to the thread poster so it's hardly surprising I took offence. it's also the main reason I put the caveat 'Anyhoo, don't really care what you think about the vaccine itself, I would be interested to know who is considering the vaccination' because I guessed someone would want to put their 2p's worth in there.
When we post on these open boards, I believe we have some responsibility as to what we are posting. As I said in my thread starter, there have been some seriously whacky and random things reported about the vaccines.
I am not an expert on m RNA vaccines, therefore I keep my opinions of them to myself, I am certainly not going to say anything that may or may not sway someone else's thoughts or ideas. Having done my research I completely disagree with your analysis that the mRNA vaccine will turn me into some sort of genetically modified being. However, I'm a grown up and I'm happy to agree to disagree and I will always recommend others do their own research instead of taking as gospel an opinion that could be misconstrued or worse, wrong.
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Post by drhenley on Feb 27, 2021 8:13:13 GMT -6
No that "you" wasn't personally directed at you Sonic, it was directed at everyone reading the post.
The definition of "GMO" is not very precise, so we can disagree on whether it is an appropriate term and I'll just leave it at that.
When people said that the vaccine altered your DNA, I decided to look into the mRNA vaccines for myself. Instead of going to the mainstream media I went straight to the research papers on it written by the people that actually developed them to get their explanation. I have written research papers in the area of biomedical engineering myself, so I know where to find them and how to read them...and also how to read between the lines...
This is some of what I learned:
The mRNA vaccines genetically modify cells "temporarily" (we'll get to that next) to cause the cells to produce spike proteins. This is more efficient than just injecting spike proteins into the bloodstream because the spike proteins are created inside the cells, which causes a stronger immune response.
For the genetic modification to be permanent, the mRNA would need to be "internalized" (the term used in the research papers) into the cell nucleus, otherwise it is all eventually broken down by the cell.
Now we get to the crux of the matter: The research papers do not say it can't be internalized, they say that internalization is "inefficient." Exactly what they mean by "inefficient" they don't specify. To me that is a huge red flag. Inefficient doesn't mean impossible. It means that a small percentage of the mRNA is, in fact, internalized. I'd like to know what percentage.
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Post by sonic on Mar 2, 2021 10:18:12 GMT -6
Had my first dose this morning. They had the Oxford Astra Zeneca flavour, which was the one I wanted, so happy to have it.
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Post by billmasen on Mar 2, 2021 10:57:09 GMT -6
I'm getting mine on Thursday, i dont care what type it is I just want my life back.
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Post by sonic on Mar 2, 2021 11:06:30 GMT -6
I'm getting mine on Thursday, i dont care what type it is I just want my life back. Ditto.
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Post by kelabar on Mar 3, 2021 5:50:17 GMT -6
This would be the best vaccine providing they aren't lying. Uses a dead virus to trick your immune system. Your body 'sees' this dead virus and produces antibodies against it but because it is dead you don't get sick. These antibodies will also work against the live virus because it 'looks' the same to your body. This method is tried and tested for decades. "Russia’s 3rd vaccine: CoviVac developer tells RT new jab uses classic ‘dead virus’ technology" www.rt.com/russia/517024-russia-third-vaccine-dead-virus/
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 8:27:20 GMT -6
Had mine on thursday feel no different, feel fine in fact. I'm laughing at another forum though they reckon the vacine is a (whisper) plot to sterilise us / brain wash us / microchip us/ control us/ change our DNA/ turn us into addicts / tranquilise us.......
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Post by sonic on Mar 7, 2021 8:38:04 GMT -6
Glad it all went well Bill. LOL. It just so happens I did a sweep of some of the forums I visit on occasion. The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum on that particular board. I can only think of them as a bunch of Wormwoods (Matilda by Roald Dahl) (I'm right, you're wrong. I'm big you're small and there's nothing you can do about it.)
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 9:03:46 GMT -6
Glad it all went well Bill. LOL. It just so happens I did a sweep of some of the forums I visit on occasion. The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum on that particular board. I can only think of them as a bunch of Wormwoods (Matilda by Roald Dahl) (I'm right, you're wrong. I'm big you're small and there's nothing you can do about it.) They are very keen on their RIGHTS but not their responsibilities or the RIGHTS of everyone else. Many are saying " its mah right to refuse the vaccine because ah am a free man" but when I reply that everyone else has those same RIGHTS and they can protect themselves by Refusing anti vaccers access to shops, schools, businesses, gas stations, trains, planes, hospitals etc so they are not exposed to asymptomatic infected anti vaccers they dont like it.
Then when i point out that in the Us for example a precident is set because in many states unvaccinated children ( MMR etc) are not allowed into school, and hisdtorically people with infectious diseases like Typhus, Cholera, Yellow fever, Plagues, TB, even Measles can be isolated from society until proven clear of infection. They dont like that either.
Apparently I'm the crazy one for NOT believing the Conspiracy theories and for daring to suggest MY rights are equal to theirs??
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Post by sonic on Mar 7, 2021 9:15:02 GMT -6
I read your posts over there and I can't remember who said 'with rights comes responsibility' however, it would seem they all want their rights but are not prepared to take responsibility. Hey ho.
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 9:29:46 GMT -6
I read your posts over there and I can't remember who said 'with rights comes responsibility' however, it would seem they all want their rights but are not prepared to take responsibility. Hey ho. Yup apparently THEIR rights are superior to every one elses, So if they decide not to vaccinate and they want to go around spreading covid they should not be stopped because everyone elses rights are inferior to theirs. That forum is in terminal decline its best members have gone dark over the last year. Its Conspiracy central now.
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Post by sonic on Mar 7, 2021 9:36:56 GMT -6
I left there when I noticed my ignore list could run to 2 pages
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 9:52:04 GMT -6
I left there when I noticed my ignore list could run to 2 pages Har Har Har good one, I just realised that in all the years I have used that forum I have only been blocking people since last August, and the list is growing fast. I just blocked a fellow Brit he cannot accept anything other than his own viewpoint. I think my time there is just about done. I'm starting to think its time to stop using all the forums as they are either dreadfully slow, too restrictive, boring or full of crazies.
all the guys n gals I admired have gone now, cept one and we chat via E mail now.
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Post by sonic on Mar 7, 2021 9:59:30 GMT -6
This is pretty much the only place I post.
I'm too out of step with most active preppers/survivalists on other forums, I can't be doing with the drama and bile.
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 12:01:51 GMT -6
This is pretty much the only place I post. I'm too out of step with most active preppers/survivalists on other forums, I can't be doing with the drama and bile. You are a wise butterfly.
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Post by frostbite on Mar 7, 2021 12:47:25 GMT -6
I might be one of the 'I have rights' nutcases you refer to. IMO one of the most important rights we have is what gets inserted into our body. I won't be getting the vaccine because covid doesn't really exist in Australia compared to other countries (6 weeks with zero cases in my state and a total death toll less than 1000 in the entire country), and the more govt push, the more I will push back. Some people say the unvaccinated shouldn't get hospital treatment, but I've already paid for that treatment with my taxes and private health insurance. I have no problem being denied entry or service because I'm not vaccinated, but if the person or organisation denying access receives any public funding then I want my taxes refunded to me.
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 13:03:41 GMT -6
I might be one of the 'I have rights' nutcases you refer to. IMO one of the most important rights we have is what gets inserted into our body. I won't be getting the vaccine because covid doesn't really exist in Australia compared to other countries (6 weeks with zero cases in my state and a total death toll less than 1000 in the entire country), and the more govt push, the more I will push back. Some people say the unvaccinated shouldn't get hospital treatment, but I've already paid for that treatment with my taxes and private health insurance. I have no problem being denied entry or service because I'm not vaccinated, but if the person or organisation denying access receives any public funding then I want my taxes refunded to me. Agree 100% As i said elsewhere I 100% respect your rights ABSOLUTELY, but everyone else has the RIGHT to avoid you or deny you if they fear you are infectious, Obviosly EXCLUDING those you have financial contracts with like medical insurance companies. ( but I fear your next premiums will be far higher and have more exclusions) NO ONE has the RIGHT to force you to take or do anything you dont want to do, INCLUDING vaccinations if they tried to force you physically I would stand with you and fight it.
But equally society has the same rights to protect itself, often by isolating spreaders and carriers and even those they believe / fear may by asymtomatic carriers. We all know of the various events like the asorted TB outbreaks, Ebola outbreaks, Cholera outbreaks, Typhus outbreaks, the Polio epidemics and even the Measles epidemics. All have seen society isolate, lock up even imprison people to protect society. Clearly such things are pretty much unacceptable in western countries these days. but society et al must be able to take steps to prevent spreaders or carriers triggering outbreaks. which pretty much leave just banning those few from accessing public services, schools, hospitals, shops, banks, offices etc anywhere where the possible infectious could spread the infection. I dont envy which ever government gophers have to make the decisions, but I fear that in very liberal places like the US that anti vaccers may end up facing vigilante mobs fearful for their own families doing something dreadfully stupid. Poor polio victims, Typhus carriers, TB sufferers, Lepers , Small pox victims etc over the centuries have fallen foul of frightened mobs.
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Post by dirtdiva on Mar 7, 2021 13:09:20 GMT -6
I saw this in action the other day when I was at the Ear, Nose and Throat doctor. It takes forever now to get an appointment because they see fewer patients because they cannot pack the waiting room like they used to and it takes longer to disinfect between patients. There were perhaps 6 of us in a very large waiting room and this elderly man came in for an appointment with no mask. In Tennessee the infections are still pretty high compared to others but dropping now. The nurse at the desk asked if he had a mask and if not they would provide him with one. The gentleman refused and the nurse escorted him out. End of story.
On the other end of the spectrum I can also admit I am not crazy with the way they have rushed the vaccine through and will admit to doubts of it's safety. I think for me and my husband as elderly high risk citizens it was a case of pick your poison. I think maybe I have a better chance of surviving the vaccine than I do the disease. So for my husband and I we are taking a calculated risk.
Now if you ask my macho husband he will say "something has to kill him sooner or later". Now in his 70's he's been shot, hit by a car, fell off a bridge, survived multiple car collisions and survived a heart attack. So what's a vaccine.
Looking at it from a different perspective I find it sad that the world has lost such faith in the medical profession and medial science in general. I think that is the bigger problem.
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Post by billmasen on Mar 7, 2021 13:18:26 GMT -6
No doubt there are very many genuine fears about the vaccines, but to me the risk from this bloody disease outweighs the lesser fear of the vaccine. I need to get my life back and to do that I have to have a bit of faith in the health services, but I absolutely accept and respect others on the other side of the fence. but i do think many will end perhaps as social pariahs or worse.
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Post by sonic on Mar 8, 2021 10:51:37 GMT -6
I don't think it's so much anti-vaxxers as Covid deniers. There seems to be an inordinate amount of people who believe that Covid is not the dangerous pandemic that it actually is. I fear a lot of them have missed the point. It's not the death rate that has the powers that be scared, but the infection rate. In my little part of the world, at it's height the local 1250 bed hospital was sending patients to other hospitals as they couldn't cope. That is what all the brew ha ha has been about. When your health system becomes overwhelmed treating pandemic patients it leaves little to no spare capacity for treating day to day emergencies and illnesses. As for choice, it is entirely a personal decision and like Bill, I'm happy for everyone to make their own mind up. However, I have no need to be told I'm wrong for choosing to be vaccinated and should there ever become a time when certain services or outcomes depend on being vaccinated, I hope those who chose not to have the jab have the good grace to accept that their decision may have consequences.
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