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Post by dirtdiva on Apr 2, 2021 9:34:24 GMT -6
I read this poll today and was curious about the opinions on this forum. What do you think the reasons for mass shootings are? Where does the blame lie? I personally attribute a great deal to the media. I think for many with mental illness they want the minute of fame that a mass shooting brings or to call attention to a cause! Take away the media and I think the mass shooting would be far less attractive. Majority of voters blame mass shootings on mental illness, gang violencejustthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/majority-voters-blame-mass-shootings-mental-illness-gang-violence
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Post by billmasen on Apr 2, 2021 13:54:19 GMT -6
Easy access to guns that allows a normal every day citizen who becomes mentally ill / enraged by an issue or cause who then simply grabs a gun to deal with the source of his or her problems. Dude shot a lady dead in the US yesterday because she apparently droive to close to his car. Another guy shot his entire family dead cos the wife asked for a divorce, another dude shot most of his family because his woman would not give him her $1400 benefits money, A women double tapped her husband because she wanted to go off with her secret boyfriend. Mother shot her two kids dead because her boyfriend did not like them. Dude got made redundant so went and got a gun and went and killed his boss and three work mates. Guy shot a waitress dead because she got his take away order wrong. another lady who was in debt shot hubby dead and tried to make it look like a home intrusion. She wanted the insurance money to go to Disney world. Guy a few years ago harboured a grudge against his teachers who did not give him the grades he wanted, so he shot him dead and some students dead. Most of the cases I read are NOT mentally ill just ordinary folks who get pissed at something or someone and deal with it by shooting. In the UK we no longer have those precious rights to arm ourselves because the government over reacted to two terrible tragedies, In the US to me as an outsider it appears that you have your rights to be armed but they trump the rights of other people not to be gunned down by someone with an issue. I see no way of it ever being resolved as there are quite simply that many guns in the US no laws will ever stop the growing numbers of mass shootings or gross over reactions to a problem that gets resolved with gun fire. Many cities in the US are more like WAR ZONES ( chicago, detroit, baltimore, san fran ) these days and its only going to get worse. And as law enforcement and crime prevention programs make it harder in these cities for criminals to operate it will never reduce the numbers of mass shootings, and its likely to simply to drive gun crime out of the cities into the burbs right behind the growing spread of narcotics.
In the UK violent crime is also rising by about 18% a year but has far fewer gun issues, but where I see a likely similar end result is this. As cities tighten up on urban crime from gangs, home intruder criminals, drug dealers in the UK, those gangs simply migrate out to the rural areas where there are fewer cops and easier targets. I can see that happening in the US.
Then you have to consider the actions of the far left, they use the politics of divide and conquer, they play of blacks against whites, hispanics against asians, catholics against moslims, Immigrants versus native born, north versus south, street gangs by district or heritage, politics gangs like antifa against American traditional values, , republicans against democrats , blue collar versus white collar, urban versus rural. etc the left tells group A that the reason they are poor or unemployed because of group B, They say group C is out breeding group D depriving C of housing and jobs, Group E is rich because they tread on group F.
You cannot be simply AMERICANS or BRITISH or AUSSIE for that matter because the left love to create friction and division and desperation because its the only environment the left can thrive in.
Then into the fire you have millions of guns...............light blue touch paper and retire to watch the fireworks.
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Post by billmasen on Apr 2, 2021 14:07:33 GMT -6
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Post by billmasen on Apr 2, 2021 14:07:49 GMT -6
2020 US Mass Shooting Statistics By Month Month Mass Shootings Total number killed Total number wounded Occurred at a school or university Occurred at a place of worship
Mass shootings Numbers killed Numbers wounded
January 28 39 111 February 28 40 94 March 26 27 112 April 26 23 92 May 58 37 248 June 91 62 395 July 87 71 383 August 78 51 340 September 65 44 274 October 52 41 210 November 47 47 192 December 28 39 90
Total 615 521 2,541
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Post by drhenley on Apr 2, 2021 15:49:42 GMT -6
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Post by billmasen on Apr 3, 2021 1:40:23 GMT -6
Imagine how bad London would be if they had easy acess to guns. The way I see it is plentiful guns just make the crimes EASIER, but remove the guns and the criminals will simply pick a different method, knives, batons, poison, bombs, vehicles . its not the TOOLS that are the issue its the modern culture in ALL of our metropolitan areas US/ UK/ EU/ OZ /SA etc. I dont see gun OWNERSHIP as the issue because after the UK gun bans violent crime actually ROSE ( roughly 18% a year) Ban guns and to start with only the law abiding will disarm, then as we saw in the UK if they cannot get guns they get swords, military or zombie knives, ban those blades and they simply go after other knives like Chefs knives, ban them are they simply use sharpened screwdrivers and chisels, The crimes still happen its just the weapons that change. The guns just make it more convenient. There is quite simply no way out for America its in an arms races between criminals / terrorists and law abiding citizens and the police. As I said in my first post i think mass shootings ( or stabbings) are simply going to be every day facts of our lives. What i really do not like is the migration of the violence from the urban areas to rural areas as gangs etc spread out.
BTW Laughed at Hillary Clinton yesterday saying there is good cause not for gun controls..................as she stood there surrounded by 4 armed body guards
Chicago 2020 population 8.8 million 774 murders
New York 2020 population 18 million 447 murders Los Angeles population 13 million 349 murders London 2020 population 11 million 126 homicides which includes both murder and manslaughter.
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Post by sonic on Apr 3, 2021 2:54:17 GMT -6
I'm viewing and replying as a non American, so please don't take offence as it isn't meant. I've always believed part of the problem is due to ease of access to weapons, lack of control and like DD I believe the media bears a good deal of the responsibility. The cheapening of life and encouraging violence isn't to be underestimated. If there is little regard for the sanctity of human life it is easy to wipe that life out. Having spoken to many Americans, and been on (and left) a number of forums over the years, it is easy to see how the the American psyche has degenerated. When I first started using US forums, it was a delight and refreshing to communicate with people so far away and get to know them. Now all I see is an undercurrent of violence and a maliciousness that does nothing but make the poster look an idiot and I have no interest in being involved in such bilge. Don't get me wrong, on the whole, I still think average Americans are lovely people, but my word there is a big problem in there too. The scary thing is, a similar attitude is forming here as well. So where is all this hatred and indifference coming from? Well, I believe Bill hit the nail on the head. Anarchy and division is driving this change in society.
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Post by kelabar on Apr 3, 2021 3:47:32 GMT -6
I actually find you poms more scary than the yanks. In a short time just on this forum you have gone from relatively free thinkers to "I must do what the gov tells me because they are my betters. I will not question anything". The yank psyche hasn't changed, they are just scared. The US is turning into the UK, Canada and Aus. When I looked into their Congress my first thought was 'this is just a House of Lords'! It didn't start that way but that is how it runs now. I'll have a guess but I believe the yanks look at the rest of us and see peasants or serfs. 'D' notices, gun confiscation, endless revenue, basically a subjugated people. It isn't nice but we have all been conditioned to accept it because 'what the hell would you know, little person, you aren't a politician or bureaucrat. Stay down there in your rightful place, you grubby little maggot'.
Mass shootings. Easy. The bigger ones were orchestrated. Add in a heap of reinforcement from MSM and you get lots of copycats. Repeat as desired. I fully expect a big one soon, the timing would be really convenient for the US usurpers. Stop watching MSM. It is all lies. Guns are not the problem, the US has very low crime even with high levels of gun ownership. Exclude the cities where shootings are not discouraged, like Chicago, and the US is a great place; stable, safe, prosperous. Just like the UK, Canada and Aus. Stop endlessly repeating whatever you see on TV.
If you want scary, start thinking about the people who want to ban guns. Their basic thinking is if you have a gun you will kill people. Think about that. These people's beliefs are that having a gun makes you kill people. Do you want to be near anyone like that? What will they do if they see a gun laying there? Maybe we should be locking these anti-gun people away because they don't sound stable to me. Conversely, would you shoot someone if you had a gun? Think about that and work out an answer for you.
You won't ever see it on the TV so you will never accept it but the way to stop mass shootings is to have more people with guns. In an armed society there are consequences to your actions. This changes people's behavior. Having schools as gun-free zones when people are being encouraged to do mass shootings is insane. ALL the teachers and staff should be armed. You know, like in DC! Oh, wait, that's a contradiction but its OK because they are politicians. They are important, your peasant kids lives aren't.
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Post by billmasen on Apr 3, 2021 4:09:59 GMT -6
I actually find you poms more scary than the yanks. In a short time just on this forum you have gone from relatively free thinkers to "I must do what the gov tells me because they are my betters. I will not question anything". Utter bollocks
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Post by sonic on Apr 3, 2021 4:26:10 GMT -6
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Post by kelabar on Apr 3, 2021 4:45:20 GMT -6
Nah, it looks like I hit a nerve!
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Post by sonic on Apr 3, 2021 5:29:53 GMT -6
Not even a twinge, chap. LOL. I'm not the one who had to go getting all nasty and defensive and proving my point for me.
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Post by kelabar on Apr 3, 2021 5:48:47 GMT -6
Well, it must be my poor communication skills. I can't see anything nasty or defensive in my post. It was just my observations. Shrugs. Text is a terrible format to communicate through, for me anyway (unless you are a good writer).
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Post by drhenley on Apr 3, 2021 7:31:57 GMT -6
Let me try to rephrase this without pointing any fingers...
A latin phrase Thomas Jefferson used in a letter to James Madison, "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
Translated "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
Now obviously we would all prefer peaceful freedom. No? But as it happens in the course of human events we inevitably have to choose between freedom and slavery, and people tend to gravitate towards slavery because it promises peace and tranquility. Until the promise is no longer kept, but by then the bonds of slavery are very difficult to break.
Freedom is dangerous. Choosing the path of dangerous freedom is not comfortable. Choosing the path of peaceful slavery is comfortable, but we must resist going down that path because in the end it is not peaceful, just slavery.
The full quote:
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Post by dirtdiva on Apr 3, 2021 7:36:19 GMT -6
Bill I agree with this completely. Just look at 9/11 where they turned or own planes into weapons. Look at the Boston marathon bombing. Jesus they used a pot to make a bomb.
My youngest daughter and I just had a conversation about this over a piece that she read. She made the point that the goal of the founding father's was to arm the public to control the government. That the whole point was for the public to outgun the politician.
Kelabar I think there are still plenty in the US that intend to continue to own guns ban or not. I personally believe that you will see a violence to no end in this country when they start confiscating guns.
I grew up in a world where guns were common place. Even as a girl I was taught to shoot right along with my brothers. It was part of the lifestyle to provide food and protect wildlife and property. Later as an adult and living rurally on a large piece of land again I taught my children not only to shoot guns but also bows. They hunted from a young age even the girls. I can remember my oldest daughter going to high school and the boys in the school coming in from hunting in the morning and going straight to school and locking their guns in their trucks. None were stolen and no one would have even imagined turning those guns on their classmates.
My husband a decorated military marksman taught the kids never to draw a gun unless you are willing to kill. If not get rid of it. A gun is not a status symbol or a fashion accessory. It is a weapon meant to kill. Be honest with yourself and if you can't pull the trigger buy a baseball bat.
For me I ask myself what do I own that is worth a person dying. The answer is my family members. But that can change. In a bad situation would I shoot someone to preserve my food and resources for the people I love?
I also agree with you on MSM. They create problems to have something to report on and have lost all believability. They have become part of the problems as opposed to the solution.
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Post by dirtdiva on Apr 3, 2021 8:50:37 GMT -6
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Post by dirtdiva on Apr 3, 2021 9:07:01 GMT -6
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Post by drhenley on Apr 3, 2021 9:36:11 GMT -6
And a quote from George Orwell:
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Post by frostbite on Apr 4, 2021 3:31:17 GMT -6
My opinion is mass shootings have nothing to do with easy access to guns, and everything to do with a lack of respect for each other. Poor parenting, poor role models, media and games glorifying violence, government and police who too quickly resort to violence to achieve their aims.
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Post by sahunter on Apr 4, 2021 9:21:23 GMT -6
If guns kill people, then spoons make people fat, and pencils misspell words.
As above, it's a personal choice.
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